Curse

Enchanted Warrior · Oct 29, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Warriors bring hamstring
Rangers bring pin down

Get the picture, just add a special to stop, or slow them down. no big.

Rhedd · Oct 29, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bio-Flame

Are you really trying to apply real life logic and reasoning to a game where you summon fireballs from your finger tips, raise minions from the dead and ressurrect people from the dead?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cottage Pie

sounds like christianity.

Wait a second!

Are you saying that Christians can summon fireballs from their fingertips and raise stuff from the dead? How could I have been a Christian for all these years and not known that?

Someone's been holding out on me, man...

Ensign · Oct 29, 2006, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Cow tipping is fun.

Superdarth · Oct 29, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhedd

Wait a second!

Are you saying that Christians can summon fireballs from their fingertips and raise stuff from the dead? How could I have been a Christian for all these years and not known that?

Someone's been holding out on me, man...

If youre a christian i doubt youl be happy to know what he realy means.(Though you probably know already)

Malice Black · Oct 29, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Cow tipping is fun.

Indeed

Time to close..?

4ssassin · Oct 30, 2006, 08:23 PM // 20:23

oh no, now all the ppl with tons of time cant kill the same monsters over and over in a sleepy daze for massive profit. cry me a river.

Blackest Rose · Oct 30, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4ssassin

oh no, now all the ppl with tons of time cant kill the same monsters over and over in a sleepy daze for massive profit. cry me a river.

So I see that after 8 pages the message has been lost.
Time to reread the opening remarks again I think....

I'm playing normally - not a farmer.
The monster AI is broken and it affects ALL PVE gameplay

To anyone who farms (for recreational use or a permanent basis) it now takes longer. To some people this is the important aspect - others not.

To anyone who does quests/missions it now takes longer and no I don't believe it has made the game harder/more challenging - just more frustrating.

Longer does not equal more fun.
Chasing after stuff across a map while it runs away is not fun...
Since when does a warrior run away from a mesmer??

Narutoscryed · Oct 30, 2006, 11:24 PM // 23:24

I feel a nice middle ground is needed. I will try to explain this by talking about things i would like to see kept and things i would like to see dropped.. all relate to the new ai improvements..

For the things i would like to keep. before the nerf the baddies would run from 2 seconds or more of any aoe spells that deal damage.. this was an amazing way to have things done.. it means that the baddies are smart.. but not to smart.. i mean they are monsters and demons after all..

Now after the update.. They will scatter the second the spell is clicked.. that means it even discounts the 3 second cast time of some spells.. if you dont belive me.. go drop a meteor shower on a group that your monk is tanking.. they will scatter before the first meteor hits. and they will instantly go after the caster of the spell.. this needs to be fixed..

This to me seems very excessive. I mean the monsters would have to know every single spells animation and how it is related to the danger present to them for this to happen.. WAYYYY to smart for deamons and monsters.. this needs to be fixed.

Another annoying problem is the ai taking breaks to heal in battle.. all i know is that if im the bad guy.. and its thirty on one... im gonna go balls out.. expecially if my whole 30 man team is lvl 28 and the one person is only 20.. this needs to be fixed.

Now one would naturally try to slow the enimy group down so they cannot run from the aoe damage.. so slow spells would naturally be best.. whats 2 good slow spells.. ward against foes and grasping earth.. both cause a 50% decrease in movment speed of all ajdacent allies.. so that ammounts to 100% right???? WRONG the slow spells dont stack... only single target slows can get above 50%.. this needs to be fixed if they insist on having running aggro...

Now.. comes the problem of enimies scattering at the aplication of sv.. or av.. this is a terrible problem because most the time the spell dosent even come into contact with the mob.. they scatter before it can and you only end up with a buckshot effect on the mob.. Last time a checked trolls did not care about energy.. so why scatter and head straight for the caster?.. thats right because they know that we are working a build against them.. this needs to be fixed....

In the end these problems are what really annoy me.. i can still solo farm alota things.. but that is not the point.. the point is.. if they want to increase challenge do it by increasing the overall challenge of the game.. not by making annoying games of tag..

Now that all that is said.. i will be the first to say that all the fun is not gone from guild wars.. but it really does feel like alot has been ripped out..

and to all the folks that say its better this way... wait for about a month from now.. when you got all the missions done and you have beaten the game a few times... at that point your just coasting untill the next chapter... and you need somthing to do.. have fun grinding through the same old missions over and over again.. you wanted it this way.

4ssassin · Oct 30, 2006, 11:30 PM // 23:30

hmm. ive noticed a bit of monster running, but nothing that bad. just need to watch the aggro circle some more....then again,i play a smite monk, so maybe im just missing it? hm. oh well. /agree with nerf, bring on some anti wammo stuff!!

@naruto: hmm. so your saying that if you were in a fight, and were almost dead, you wouldnt stop to heal even if you out numbered your enemy? i know i would, lol. 2nd, your arguing for the "farming" which seems to be the main reason for this nerf. 3rd. theres more to the game than just missions. theres getting masters on all missions, quests, which if you do them all probably triples the length of the game, pvp, and of course beating it with different chars. if you get "bored" after ALL that, then instead of killing the same monsters over and over in farming, why dont you...do something else NOT guild wars related? also, /notsigned with slowdown stacking, cause then earth/water eles could do 100% AoE slow and maintain it for a very long time. that would ruin all pvp.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 30, 2006, 11:44 PM // 23:44

People, there's a reason that it's called ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE. There's bound to be an occasional odd behaviour going on with it. BUT it's nothing that a real person with actual intelligence (debateable) can't handle.

I am now almost at the Bone Palace and have only used henchies and heroes throughout the whole thing. It seriously isnt hard at all people.

Sir Skullcrasher · Oct 30, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

wow if A-Net nerfing things is bad. Imagine what happened if they actually shut down the servers and start on another game or project?

Sir Kilgore · Oct 30, 2006, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Just another whack for this dead horse....

Those of you saying adapt and bring a slow down skill, well you are right and wrong. See we only have 8 skills. Now you have to bring a rez and some type of slowdown to EVERY battle, so you are down to 6 slots for actually doing something.

You could use the same argument about bringing hex/condition removers -- and you'd be right. BUT if you had to bring them for every single battle you were in, then suddenly you'd be down to 4 slots just to start to function.

This is the problem I'm having. It doesn't make you use your mind or strategy more -- it's less. Now you are required to bring another skill to every battle because every group of monsters will behave the same way and you have to slow them down. This means you bring even fewer useful skills to do damage and/or heal. Now there's even fewer decisions to make about what to bring and when to use them.

This doesn't make the game more challenging or force you to be more intelligent. It makes the game more annoying, more limiting, and have fewer choices and creativity in your builds.

In addition, take a look at a lot of the new skills. Many of them only reach their full potential if coupled with another skill. Many of them require enchantments, hexes, or conditions to be really effective -- or have a negative side effect that you have to negate with another skill. This means you probably have to burn 2 more slots to get one good effect.

If you can't see that this is dumbing down the game rather than making it more challenging then I'm sorry.

I can understand making monsters not want to stand in raining fire, but having them break off fighting just because some guy spun around with an axe one time is a bit much.

I guess for me if the AI actually resembled intelligence I wouldn't have such a problem with it, but this "improvement" seems to be aimed at curtailing certain practices rather than with simulating intelligence in the enemies.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 30, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Kilgore

Those of you saying adapt and bring a slow down skill, well you are right and wrong. See we only have 8 skills. Now you have to bring a rez and some type of slowdown to EVERY battle, so you are down to 6 slots for actually doing something.

Dude...there's 8 people in the party...I'm sure ONE of you can spare ONE slot for a snare.

Sir Kilgore · Oct 31, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Yes, so they can slow down 1 enemy reliably, or a few enemies for a short period of time. It's not like the monsters don't bring and use hex/condition removers so you have to probably have at least 4 people with slow down skills to keep them slowed down to a suitable level.

The point is it's not adding anything positive to the game -- it's making it more limited, tedious, less challenging, and allowing less creativity.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 31, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Kilgore

Yes, so they can slow down 1 enemy reliably, or a few enemies for a short period of time. It's not like the monsters don't bring and use hex/condition removers so you have to probably have at least 4 people with slow down skills to keep them slowed down to a suitable level.

The point is it's not adding anything positive to the game -- it's making it more limited, tedious, less challenging, and allowing less creativity.

*sighs* All you need is to slow down whatever you're targeting. If the target runs. Snare it. You dont need to snare everything.

Sir Kilgore · Oct 31, 2006, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

*sighs* All you need is to slow down whatever you're targeting. If the target runs. Snare it. You dont need to snare everything.

*sighs*

And then one of the enemies casts cure condition on your little snare and he's off to the races again while you wait for a recharge.

YOU ARE STILL MISSING THE WHOLE POINT.

It's not whether or not you can compensate for it. It's whether or not it does anything positive for the game. There's a million things they could do to make battles take longer, but that doesn't mean any of them would make the game more fun or challenging. They could give all the critters armor ratings so high that you only did damage with special attacks or spells and give them all health regen rates of +3 with infinite energy, but would that really make the game better? You could probably compensate for that too with massive spike damage, but it would have the effect of limiting how you could successfully play the game rather than allowing for creativity.

I posted this elsewhere, but I'll do it again:

If the monsters don't want to fight then why would they attack us once inside the "aggro bubble"? If they do want to fight then why run the first (or second) time they take damage? I thought AI stood for Artificial Intelligence. Perhaps it's something else in this case.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 31, 2006, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Ok fine. You win. PVE is impossible! Strategies and skills dont work on them! I quit too!

Sorry, but now you're just being stubborn. Strategy works. I promise.

saphir · Oct 31, 2006, 12:24 AM // 00:24

The only time I ever experience monsters running away is when I solo, and the only type of monsters I find that will instantly run are the monks, and the only time they run is when I get too close to them to use a "nearby" enemies skill.

When I'm in a party, especially in places like uw/fow, pve has become so dumbed down it's ridiculous. Every one keeps saying, "oh pve is much more difficult now! the AI is SOOO much SMARTER!!" but I just don't see it.

Please enlighten me, anyone, on exactly how the AI is oh-so-much-smarter and more intelligent and tougher, etc, etc, ad naseum ... when monsters focus all fire on the warrior (or whoever has the highest armor in the party), when monsters stand around packed on the warrior, joyfully suiciding on SS+reckless while meteor showers rain down on them, while casters and monks stand around surrounded by mesmers/ranger mobs unworried about the interrupts that never come. Monking has never been more boring in this game than after the update. Simply said, even in the toughest "elite" areas of GW, your party doesn't die. In fact, hardly anyone dies. It's as if the lost "book trick" from FOW has been brought out of the abyss and shoved willingly or unwillingly into the hands of every single warrior out there.

Throw healing seed or some bonds up on the warrior, and casters can just run loose, aggro everything and you know only the warrior will be attacked.

Please don't tell me that this is what anet intended as the "NEW AND IMPROVED" AI

because if it is.. that's just too sad

let's please have a moment of silence for kiting and smarter players in pve..

Sir Kilgore · Oct 31, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

Ok fine. You win. PVE is impossible! Strategies and skills dont work on them! I quit too!

Sorry, but now you're just being stubborn. Strategy works. I promise.

Who said strategy doesn't work? Are you not reading these? What they did LIMITS the strategy you can use.

It will go like this:

Someone calls a target:

Immediately snare/slow down EVERY single time. Same or different person adds a coverup condition or hex. Someone else has a backup snare in case that one is removed. That's not strategy. That's boring. And it just chewed up several skill slots just so you can actually have a fight.

Strategy is adjusting to DIFFERENT situations. This one will force the same beginning to almost every battle. That's tedious, not strategic.

All it does is eat up skill slots for the party without adding any level of intelligence or fun to the game. It's not like I'm saying I don't understand how to get around it or I can't deal with it. What I'm saying is it diminishes the fun without giving anything back in return.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 31, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

So...you're saying that before this change, people werent using the same builds, same strategies? Where have you been?